(Interview originally published on Ymag. Go read the first and the second part.)

Nicola: A couple more questions about the Zuidas. You work with urban issues a lot, and – when it comes to Amsterdam – two things come to mind: housing shortage and the myth of the “Creative City”. Given the “business district” profile of the Zuidas, how does the artist, most stereotypically associated with a bohemian lifestyle, relate to such an environment? After information aesthetics, can we talk about business aesthetics?

Tom: As more and more business districts pop up, they form a kind of global grid of financial activity and influence. In a sense this is a new form or territoriality – in a topological space. As the power of multinational companies grows beyond that of states or cities, the networked space they consume can potentially one day declare itself a sovereign nation.

At the same time, as more and more people do creative stuff online for fun, so the need for artists becomes questionable. After all, artists are not necessary to rulers anymore for amusement, for beauty or for design, because these are everywhere to be found. So can we still define contemporary artist as bohemians these days? When I entered the Zuidas for the first time, I felt as if entering a Royal court. I was sitting in public space, but at the same time I was on private property. This reminded me of a letter by J.S. Bach to his patron, Frederick the Great, king of Prussia:

“MOST GRACIOUS KING!

In deepest humility I declare herewith to Your Majesty a musical offering, the noblest part of which derives from Your Majesty’s own august hand. … and it has none other than this irreproachable intent, to glorify, if only in a small point, the fame of a monarch whose greatness and power in all the sciences of war and peace, so especially in music, everyone must admire and revere. I make bold to add this most humble request: may Your Majesty deign to dignify the present modest labor with a gracious acceptance, and continue to grant Your Majesty’s most august Royal grace to Your Majesty’s most humble and obedient servant , The Author”

The relationship between art and power, although more complex, is nothing new. I think artists offer something to the art collector which is beyond aesthetics or design. They create objects of arbitrary value, that can be dressed up in any price tag. Like a watermark. A seal of prestige. Most large companies in the Zuidas have extensive art collections, and they buy modern art all the time. The last exhibition at the VIrtual Museum Zuidas was of sculptures from the collections of the biggest companies there. Jeroen Boomgaard of the Art and Public Space group at Rietveld, wrote that one of the public sculptures – A large puppy by Tom Classen, that sits in the entrance to the territory of ABN-AMRO – exemplifies the role of commissioned art and of public space at the Zuidas. It is a symbolic guardian of public grounds that in practice is privatized by the bank.

Nicola: How do you think art, as an established factor in urban growth and district-profiling, can affect the Zuidas as a business district? You were invited to reflect on a developing area, while at the same time putting it on the map of global imaginary through your art. How do you feel about working as both a critical artist and a guest at the same time?

Tom: As I mentioned before, I was well aware of this issue. In fact, the inherent conflict of the position of an artist in residence in such a place has led me to develop the role of the protagonist in The New Model City – that of an artist in service. To cope with this issue of impartiality, I came up with a sort of personal strategy: First, I made sure my piece was funded by third parties, that have no interest in the Zuidas. I kept a distance from the official literature, PR and public debate on the Zuidas, and tried to see things with my own eyes. I did regular spontaneous walks in the area and tried to be there in person, avoiding all pressure to form judgement of project prematurely. I let decisions come slowly, and refrained from realizing them or talking about them until the right moment. And I read a lot. Then, I eventually compiled all of the information into a kind of story. Information is best transmitted as a story. To me the broader story of new urbanity, military occupation and Walking Through Walls was much more interesting to tell, than that of the specific place ‘Zuidas’. So my process was to objectify the places, which I also tried to do in my video. To make the location seem almost placeless and insignificant.

Nicola: You are about to start a PhD at Goldsmiths, in London. What kind of research are you going to undertake there?

Tom: My PhD will be practice-based and interdisciplinary. I plan to explore the role of art as a research platform, looking for the origins of political conflict, in the intimate relationship between the body, space and environment. I will work with Dr. Kay Dickinson and Dr. Suhail Malik, at the Media & Communications and Art departments, and will work in close contact with people from the Visual Cultures and with Eyal Weizman’s Research Architecture group. Practically I will present on a number of new art works that also have a written theoretical part. But in practice I expect things to develop and change as soon as the year starts in October.

Many thanks to Tom Tlalim for the interview! Check out his website.